Curse

kvndoom · Oct 17, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Update - Tuesday October 16
Skill Updates

Assassin

* Deadly Paradox: decreased the activation and recharge time of Assassin Skills to 33%.

Monk

* Shield of Regeneration: reverted this Skill to its original behavior.

Mesmer

* Keystone: reverted this Skill to its original behavior.

lacasner · Oct 17, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

SoR was fine as it was wtf..it's a stupid skill

Div · Oct 17, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Assassin

* Deadly Paradox: decreased the activation and recharge time of Assassin Skills to 33%.

I'm just glad izzy is at last realizing the insane power of this skill. Nice necessary nerf, but I'm not completely sure if it's enough.

Great job reverting keystone and SoR back though.

Sab · Oct 17, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Assassin

* Deadly Paradox: decreased the activation and recharge time of Assassin Skills to 33%.

It's a nice start, but Deadly Paradox is still pretty damn strong.

Riotgear · Oct 17, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Remove the fast-cast. :P

Moloch Vein · Oct 17, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Suggested change for Chilblains:

Define "target" as either foe or ally.
Change number of enchantments to 0...1...2 so that this isn't a skill you can use with equal effectiveness at Curses 0.
Revert casting time to original.

Question for designers:

Was it really the intended result that this skill shouldn't be usable against enchantments like Shadow Form or Spell Breaker (please do note that these enchantments can be covered and thus not strippable.)

glountz · Oct 17, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

I think Keystone is underpowered now.
The best would be to disable it 6...3 secs per recharged signet (so no more overpowered MoR-Keystone combo).

Ensign · Oct 17, 2007, 10:08 AM // 10:08

What environment were people running Chilblains in again?

DIH49 · Oct 17, 2007, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

What environment were people running Chilblains in again?

It's the newest GvG gimmick. One guy deepfreezes, the next guy chillblains, and then they maelstrom you to death.

glountz · Oct 17, 2007, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Humility spam made my guild wins more GvG it should have.
That showed me the reliance of teams upon LoD.
Buffs asked:
Heal Party: 1 sec cast.
Healing Ribbon: AoE extended to Area.
Healing Burst:Normal range (no touch), AoE extended to Earshot, 10 unconditionnal energy, 8 recharge.

Moloch Vein · Oct 17, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

What environment were people running Chilblains in again?

I am not sure if this quick post is constructed as a mild form of irony or not; if it isn't, I ask for forgiveness for that assumption.

The point, as I see it, is that the skill balancer(s) has taken an interest in Chilblains. I don't see that as a bad thing. I can't recall when this skill was last changed, however since my gw experience is only a half year, that is perhaps not surprising.

As I see it Chilblains was a fringe skill that was only brought in highly specialized situations. Actively changing this skill can only mean that the balancer wishes it to find a use.

The change simply means that the caster can use the skill at normal caster range, and that its effect is completely independent of any rank in Curses. Additionally it means it cannot target non-targettable foes. Now, sure, you can always "splash it" off another foe, but as I mentioned, it will only remove one enchantment, and an enchantment like SB or SF can easily be covered. On top of that, the medium-long new casting time makes it much more effective on a mesmer than any other class (especially since they frequently bring Ausp Inc).

My question was if it was intended that the change would make targetting these foes impossible. I think that making a skill, that in some way would be viable to actually bring, function as an effective encounter to one (in my opinion pretty lame) gimmick or another would be a good thing.

Is this unreasonable?

Riotgear · Oct 17, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

If you're bringing skills specifically to counter Shadow Form in PvP, especially pre-buff Chilblains, you need to rethink your strategy.

If you know you're going to be facing it, i.e. in PvE, you either splash it off of any number of other available targets, or you use
[skill]Expunge Enchantments[/skill]

If you're really THAT desperate, to counter it, bring:
[skill]Charm Animal[/skill][skill]Well of the Profane[/skill]

moriz · Oct 17, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

wow, finally a (small) step in the right direction.

good work izzy. now fix the other problems.

Vaga · Oct 17, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

If you're bringing skills specifically to counter Shadow Form in PvP, especially pre-buff Chilblains, you need to rethink your strategy.

If you know you're going to be facing it, i.e. in PvE, you either splash it off of any number of other available targets, or you use
[skill]Expunge Enchantments[/skill]

If you're really THAT desperate, to counter it, bring:
[skill]Charm Animal[/skill][skill]Well of the Profane[/skill]

I'm sure serious TAer's would have brought counters to shadow form considering the title track is based on getting consecutive victories. Having a draw against 4 Shadow Form sins that you can't do anything to would probably be pretty problematic.

pkodyssey · Oct 17, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

We're going to have an article with an explanation of the skill balance up on the wiki shortly. Hopefully that will answer the questions some of you have.

I shouldn't need an explanation. Most of the people that post here are in the upper percentage of players and grasp the metagame concepts. We also understand skill interaction and can look at a skill and see how it will be utilized in conjunction with other skills.

If you need to post "explanations" then apparently... Your doing it wrong.

The casual player, probably, rarely goes to the forums, wiki, or even cares. They just want to point, click and kill. The people driving your income don't care...aka casual player.

My point is... why not improve the game for those people that care and let the casual players go along for the ride?

[sarcasm to full] BTW, nice update to the update... [/sarcasm to full]

Bankai · Oct 17, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkodyssey

I shouldn't need an explanation. Most of the people that post here are in the upper percentage of players and grasp the metagame concepts. We also understand skill interaction and can look at a skill and see how it will be utilized in conjunction with other skills.

If you need to post "explanations" then apparently... Your doing it wrong.

The casual player, probably, rarely goes to the forums, wiki, or even cares. They just want to point, click and kill. The people driving your income don't care...aka casual player.

And the explanations are for those that don't post here. The explanations are for those that look on GWiki to find new builds (I know it's PvXwiki now, shush). For the ones that cry 'OMFG WY DID U LIEK NERF THIZ AND THIZ SKILX ND Y DID U NREF TEH ONLI COUNTR 4 SHDW F0RMM!!1'.

Moloch Vein · Oct 17, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

If you're bringing skills specifically to counter Shadow Form in PvP, especially pre-buff Chilblains, you need to rethink your strategy.

If you know you're going to be facing it, i.e. in PvE, you either splash it off of any number of other available targets, or you use
[skill]Expunge Enchantments[/skill]

If you're really THAT desperate, to counter it, bring:
[skill]Charm Animal[/skill][skill]Well of the Profane[/skill]

This reasoning would perhaps be more relevant if the skill balancer hadn't made it clear that he was aiming to boost Necromancer enchantment removal skills so that they weren't completely overshadowed by mesmer options.

Seamus Finn · Oct 17, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

What environment were people running Chilblains in again?

I thought that the change was to facilitate drok's running via Vow of Silence and Shadowform.

Keithark · Oct 17, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaen

Did you miss the massive amount of posts that said nerfing offensive options along with nerfing the defensive web would be key?

So nerf defense but at same time nerf offense? 2 gallons of gas cost $3.00 so lets make it better we want 1 gallon to cost $1.50?? To change meta from defensive to offensive then nerfing them both will not work, you have to nerf one and leave the other for it to be the new meta. I am simply pointiing out that everyone wanted nerf to defense and get away from GvG always going to VoD and they did that with wards and paragon then as soon as they did everyone starts talking about physicals being overpowered and monks not needing the nerf to sod due to the physicals being powerful. A-Net will never "win" with this forum that is for sure. It was balanced before more than it is now imo. It is not bad now though...I just hate the paragon and warrior nerfs because I think they were done wrong...what other adrenaline skill has a recharge than wy and gfte? The cracked armor thing is the worst, if the nerf is to stand at -20 armor that is fine but get rid of it being a condition because ai removes it and burns energy for nothing.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 17, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

So nerf defense but at same time nerf offense? 2 gallons of gas cost $3.00 so lets make it better we want 1 gallon to cost $1.50?? To change meta from defensive to offensive then nerfing them both will not work, you have to nerf one and leave the other for it to be the new meta. I am simply pointiing out that everyone wanted nerf to defense and get away from GvG always going to VoD and they did that with wards and paragon then as soon as they did everyone starts talking about physicals being overpowered and monks not needing the nerf to sod due to the physicals being powerful. A-Net will never "win" with this forum that is for sure. It was balanced before more than it is now imo. It is not bad now though...I just hate the paragon and warrior nerfs because I think they were done wrong...what other adrenaline skill has a recharge than wy and gfte? The cracked armor thing is the worst, if the nerf is to stand at -20 armor that is fine but get rid of it being a condition because ai removes it and burns energy for nothing.

No. There's a need to nerf defense along with offense in order to allow mes effects to come back into play. When both offense and defense are overpowered, then mes effects just get brushed away for more offense or more defense to deal with more offense.

Also, noone wants a game with really really overpowered defense and offense. Remember, there's a certain max health in GW that can't keep going higher.

BTW, auspicious parry, song of concentration, chorus of restoration, lyric of zeal, whirlwind attack (PvE only).